You already have a very top tier DAC. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. The video cannot be shown. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). You must log in or register to reply here. Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? Stuart Smith finds out. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. But dont take our word for it. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. JavaScript is disabled. Thank you all for your answers. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. Our publication is supported by its audience. By It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. Did I mention the remote is perfect? As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. Thank you for posting! us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. But the majority of the time all 6 of Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. By 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Out of all of the DACs I've Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. If you go reference you will never look back. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. The Prime DAC Module. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. DLNA Protocol. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. Others might disagree but these are my findings. had if for 2 years now. Thank me laterLoL. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. The other issue is preference. But dont take our word for it. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. Powered by Invision Community. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. But the differences between great DACs is small. You must log in or register to reply here. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Now to include the HMS. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. Fixed. digital front ends. JavaScript is disabled. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. MQA decoding Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. See what the reviews are saying. The remainder Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. The Cheers @Stereophilus Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. Sign up for a new account in our community. and our ears are completely different. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. I don't have that kind of money. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. More to follow. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. Nice. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. It's too damn expensive, full stop. Main Menu Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. They both use FPGA for their decoding. That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. It's my understanding that the Wavedream only This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. Thank you, Mike. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. What effect does reconstruction filter have? Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. It may not display this or other websites correctly. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. You must log in or register to reply here. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. I expected a lot better. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Up to 4X DSD I could easily live with any of these. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. Anyone make that comparison? What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick Not a bad idea Snoop! and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. and build quality is also excellent. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own.